Redbrick Meets: The Wombats

The Wombats were formed at the Liverpool Institute of Performing Arts in 2003 and have gone on to release five studio albums with their most recent record, Fix Yourself, Not The World, being the first to reach number one in the UK. Their fun, thoughtful and creative indie tracks have made them a band who are adored by many people in the UK and across the world, and their upcoming EP Is This What It Feels Like To Feel Like This? is set to further expand their impressive catalogue, exploring the band’s rawer sound with ‘spiky guitar riffs and heavy choruses’. I was extremely excited to talk to bassist Tord Øverland Knudsen, who joined me from his home studio in Oslo, about the new EP, how they write and produce songs and how things have changed and what they have done after almost 20 years together.

Your new single ‘Is This What It Feels Like To Feel Like This?’ came out in August. I read that the inspiration for the song came from Murph [Matthew Murphy] driving past a rundown hotel. What was the process like from that initial idea? Did he come to you and Dan [Haggis] with a finished song or just sort of the makings of it?

…when I left the song was kind of in a million pieces. Then I got it sent through and was like ‘Wow!’.

Tord: Yeah it was pretty much a finished song that we kind of like rerecorded. It was actually done around the same time as the album, Fix Yourself, Not The World. I think we did 17 songs in total and obviously 11 songs that we thought fit in nicely together for the album. The idea was always to have an EP kind of like seven or eight months after the album came out with these other songs. And that was kind of like, a song that we felt like was sitting better on an EP than on the album.

We started like rerecording stuff and then, cause it was lockdown it was a bit difficult. I was in London at the time. I managed to come over to record but I had to head home. So I kind of like left just after I put down my bass parts and didn’t really hear where the song was heading until it was almost finished, the first kind of rough mix or whatever. So in that sense it was a bit strange because I feel like I wasn’t really hearing the layers and the steps throughout the way. And when I left the song was kind of in a million pieces. Then I got it sent through and was like ‘Wow!’ That’s kind of how that process was. It’s kind of unusual, obviously because it was unusual times. Normally we’d obviously be all in the studio, like layering and working our way through the track together but for this one it was like ‘Yeah, we’ve done our parts’ and then just hearing a finished song that sounded amazing.

Is it usually like that? Say if one of you has an idea, do you bring it to the others at least with quite a lot the song finished or can it sometimes just be a very base level kind of thought?

Tord: It varies, it varies a lot. A lot of the tracks from the album, from Fix Yourself, Not The World, we did actually manage to write quite a bit of it before the pandemic hit. We went on like three trips I think. Three writing trips to LA. And we would be in Murph’s studio, he’s got, in his basement, a studio set up. And we would literally start with nothing. We would have literally no pre-made ideas. The whole idea was like ‘Let’s see what we can make. We’ve got like 10 days here. Now let’s see how many songs we’re gonna make.’ Well not how many but ‘What can we make within these days?’. So that was kind of new. Like starting from scratch. Not even with like any sort of starting point whatsoever. The first song we wrote in that session, the first session was ‘Ready For The High’.

Oh yeah.

Tord: And then one of the other songs we did from that writing session was ‘Method To The Madness’. So that’s one way of doing it. You know, starting with nothing, starting with a blank canvas and start throwing things at it. It’s almost like playing something and you kind of take, you know, it could be whatever’s inspiring you that morning or whatever. One of the trips that we were on, me and Dan, we were living in an Air B&B down the road and we were like driving up to Murph’s and we were listening to the radio and Talking Heads came on. And we were sort of like ‘Oh, that’s cool!’ like to make something like a bit more funky but still with that kind of ‘punky’ element. That was the day we started working on ‘Wildfire’.

Yeah, I love that song.

Tord: So that was kind of like a direct result of hearing that song on the radio on the way up.

Yeah, that’s really interesting.

It’s like everything that’s happening around you at that time can really affect how the song kind of pans out.

Tord: I like working like that. It’s like everything that’s happening around you at that time can really affect how the song kind of pans out. When it’s a song that you like started programming something for or you wrote months ago then it’s very much like set in stone. This is like a considered idea that you had the time to think about. There’s some songs where Murph will come in with like, you know the skeleton of a song. Just like an acoustic guitar with like the verse and chorus and the lyrics sort of semi kind of finished and stuff and then we’ll take it from there and finish it.

But like the song that you mentioned, the latest single, was pretty much ready. The arrangement, it was like a proper recording, you know like a demo. That’s another way of doing it. ‘Greek Tragedy’ was a backing track that me and Dan started and then Murph wrote the top line on it. There’s so many like combinations or ways to work and I think that’s what’s exciting as well. And obviously that can add some sort of like variation I suppose when you eventually sit down and choose the songs that you want to out on an album.

Yeah, definitely. You’ve already mentioned the EP and how the songs were written at the same time as Fix Yourself, Not The World. What was behind the decision of putting the EP out, like you said within seven, eight months, the same year as the album, as opposed to maybe saving them for your next album or a later release?

Tord: I think it was more because we have obviously a UK tour coming up now and then we’ve got an Australian run as well. We’ve got like a touring festival and some headline shows in Australia. So we thought obviously just to have something that is new around that time, I guess that was sort of the plan. And also because we had all these songs that we were liking and enjoying. We felt like they needed to be released in some capacity. Obviously, when we start working on the next album maybe we’ll have a different direction. Maybe they would’ve been too old or like not fit in to the concept of the next album or whatever.

So it kind of made sense to record them all in one go really. And then obviously which songs made it on to the album and which songs made it onto the EP was like based on what songs we thought were fitting well together. So that could’ve been any, you know? But I feel like the EP definitely got like a bit of a different direction and those songs that we kind of put together there feel like they wouldn’t have maybe fitted as well on the album. That’s the decision we made really.

Did you revisit the songs at all, when you were working on them as the EP? Are they at all different to how they were when you did them at the same time as the album? Or are they kind of the same songs?

Tord: They were like mixed around the same time as well. Apart from ‘Same Old Damage’ which is actually the demo.

Oh really?

Tord: ‘Same Old Damage’ was a song that we did on the first writing trip as well, the one that we did ‘Ready For The High’ and ‘Method To The Madness’. And it was never supposed to be on the album. It wasn’t supposed to be on the EP but I was kind of like doing a mix for something, it was something else anyway. I was mixing it anyway. It was just me, like here in Oslo. It was just demo files. It was basically what we recorded in Murph’s, it was not in a fancy studio or anything. And kind of mixed it here and everybody was like ‘This sounds really good. Maybe it should be on the EP’. And then we kind of all agreed to add that onto the EP. So there is like that one which was done separately to everything else.

Right yeah. That makes sense.

Tord: Maybe you can hear that, but I feel like they sort of sit nicely together though somehow.

I was also reading that you took on a lot of the production responsibilities for the EP. How did that end up being the case? What led to that being the way you did things?

Tord: Well we’ve kind of always been very hands on with the production. I guess the only album we really didn’t get that involved with production was the second album cause that was our first experience in LA with like you know kind of ‘big producers’ in big studios. A lot of that was kind of like stuff that we learnt, you know we learnt a lot from those sessions. And then from that point onwards we were kind of like always co-producing so we were always like in the loop of like, you know helping out or like doing stuff separately and adding it to the sessions. That was the time we started working with Mark Crew, the producer.

Yeah

Tord: He did Glitterbug and Beautiful People… and Fix Yourself… so he’s done three, the three last albums we’ve done with him. So that’s maybe one of the reasons we really like working him as well, he’s not super precious about like his contribution or part. I feel like it’s a very open environment. We can bring in production ideas or like, you know we can do stuff in a different room and then bring it in he’ll be like ‘Oh yeah, that’s cool!’ you know ‘Let’s add that’, ‘Let’s try and replace this’ and he will trust us to go off and do that as well. So it’s very much like a sort of collaboration I suppose when it comes to the production. But at the end of the day when it comes to like tying in all the loose ends and stuff that’s kind of where his kind of role comes in.

Yeah. That leads into my next question actually. I was gonna ask about working with producers like Mark Crew and Mike Crossey who you’ve worked with before. I suppose you said it in your last answer but is that important to you as band, working consistently with people that you know and trust, and that obviously work well with you?

It’s different when you can actually like have that sort of relationship to a producer that’s actually your friend as well. It creates a much safer environment and an environment where you can actually be completely honest.

Tord: It has become more important the last few years I would say because like prior that we were like working with all kinds of different producers. Second album we had like five different producers over the whole album which was kind of like, it’s exciting but it can also throw you a little bit, it can also be a little bit hard to get like a cohesive sound or a cohesive sort of direction and idea what the album should be. But it kind of worked on that album cause everything was done in LA.

We obviously lived there, it was the three of us obviously like doing it as well, that always colour how things will sound and how it will pan out obviously based on what we like as well. Of course we really like working with Mark, he’s a good friend as well now. You know, we would hang out in London. Dan, he lives in London, they do loads of stuff together, even when we’re not in the studio, they like go for meals or go to pubs or whatever. It’s different when you can actually like have that sort of relationship to a producer that’s actually your friend as well. It creates a much safer environment and an environment where you can actually be completely honest. You know, you can get across exactly what you like and want without offending anyone, you know anyone’s ego or whatever.

Like sometimes you work with producers that are, you know they are so called ‘super producers’ and they could, you know of course have a bit of an issue with like you know, you commenting on certain things or trying to sway the sort of direction that they want to head but you want to like try to do this and that instead maybe. So it’s very nice to have people around that accept that we are kind of hands on and kind of embrace it I suppose.

Yeah definitely.

What I’ve seen from watching your performances is that all of you can play more than one instrument. How useful is that when you’re in the studio writing new music and performing live, what possibilities does that open up?

Tord: Yeah I mean, it’s like any of the us of us can really do any part, whether it’s guitar keyboards. The only thing that me and Murph cannot do is play drums, Dan has to do that every single time. Although, I tried to do a bit of drums on the previous album but none of those songs actually made the cut! Maybe that was why, who knows? But anyway, it kind of like allows us to, you know jump in. And no one’s like super precious about like ‘Okay, I have to play the bass every single time’ but most of the time that happens.

Dan will always do the drums, Murph will do most of the guitar parts but there’s no reason for any of us not to jump in and do some guitars as well. Especially keyboard parts, the little ‘production-y’ things we all kind of like join in on that. And programming and stuff, like we can all do that. No one’s super precious about that. But obviously Dan will do the drums, I’ll do bass, Murph will do the majority of the guitars, he will do the lead vocals, me and Dan will do backing vocals. It’s kind of like, certain rules are kind of set without like having to discuss it if you know what I mean?

Yeah, like you have your jobs but you move outside them a little bit.

Tord: Yeah and no one’s offended if someone else is like ‘Oh yeah, I added a guitar line’ or ‘I did this bass thing’ you know, or whatever. So that’s kind of nice. I think it’s just like to embrace that people can contribute in many different ways and that no one’s overly precious about the parts.

Fix Yourself, Not The World was obviously your first UK number one album, congratulations.

Tord: Thank you.

How big of an achievement was that for you as a band? Obviously after your first album coming out in 2007, was it something you always aimed towards or is that not too much of a concern?

The driving force is always like making music that we are excited about and…seeing how much these songs that we made, how much that means to…however many people.

Tord: It’s never been a driving force like to achieve merits, you know none of that has been like a driving force. The driving force is always like making music that we are excited about and you know like the creative process, obviously playing, seeing people, seeing how much these songs that we made, how much that means to you know however many people.

Of course yeah.

Tord: That’s the driving force more than anything else but obviously if that’s a biproduct of us doing something that we’re really happy with, you know like working hard on making it as good as it can possibly be, and if the biproduct is that we’re getting merits, you know like we are getting a number one then of course that’s amazing and something that we are really proud of, of course. But that is never the reason we do this and the driving force of being in a band and making music of course but it’s something that you know, I think everybody can agree that it’s something that they wouldn’t mind happen based on like making something that your happy with!

Yeah absolutely. That album, as you mentioned, a lot of it was recorded remotely obviously after those initial sessions, with all of you being in different countries as well which has its own challenges. Would you say that maybe made the album different to your other records? Obviously it is different to your other records but could you tell that it was a substantially different thing with the different processes and things, and almost something that won’t be repeated, if that makes sense?

It’s got different kind of colours in a much bigger way than some of our previous albums I think.

Tord: Yeah I think there was definitely things about the record that like panned out in certain ways for that reason, for the reason that we weren’t in the same room. Obviously like, I can sit here in Oslo and have this one little production idea and I can literally spend half a day on trying to achieve that production idea without having anyone hanging over my shoulders. Which I think is a little bit of a positive in the sense that you can really execute an idea properly if you have an idea. But then also you can, you know like fully go down rabbit holes and kind of like end up wasting loads of time on stuff. When you’re in a room with other people you’ve got this window of like 10, 15 minutes with their attention span. Like if they’re not overly sure about this idea anyway you need to put it together fairly quick in order for it to kind of like stick. That was kind of nice, you know?

Like some of the production things we wouldn’t have done otherwise. It was nice to get that time to really experiment and get to the core of the song. Sometimes that wouldn’t like stick but at least you felt like you got to execute it in the way you wanted it to be. The same with when I was sat here, because with some of the songs I had to actually do the bass lines here or guitar stuff here so I would like really work on it and like spend time overanalysing probably and I had no idea whether people were gonna like this little change that I’ve done here or whatever. So I had to go with a gut instinct on that, and the same for the others you know?

I said this in another interview just before, how different rooms sound different to the point that it can add a different colour, it can put things in different spots in the mix. It can really help the production of an album I suppose. Because when you do everything in the same room and you end up using a lot of the same mics and you can put it in the same spot or whatever. But when you are in different studios, different preamps, different mics, different rooms, anything like that, it can really add a different colour, which I think maybe you can hear in terms of the production. It’s got different kind of colours in a much bigger way than some of our previous albums I think.

Obviously it has in terms of what you can do but would you say there’s been much of a change in your approach to making albums since your first one or two to now? Obviously you’ve got probably more possibilities open to you in terms of equipment and things like that but do you have a different mind set about it or where your ideas come from?

Tord: Yeah I think we’re constantly evolving and technologies evolving giving you all the tools and it can sometimes confuse things as well because there’s too many options. You know, like sometimes something’s super nice with just an acoustic guitar and a voice, and gets to the core of a song sometimes you know? We come back to that from time to time. You know, like ‘Okay, are we getting a bit lost in production ideas?’, ‘Let’s just sit down with an acoustic and try and actually write a verse’. It’s just endless possibilities and I think we’re getting better at maybe like narrowing it down to what we like and where our taste is and kind of like figuring out within that world of gear and possibilities. Like figuring out what we like a bit more.

I think as band that we always think that our best work is ahead of us you know? And comes from a strive to be better or do something different or like try something new but within the sort of like recognisable elements that is The Wombats…

Yeah.

Tord: We can get there maybe quicker as well. Like if there’s a record that we love, this part, this section or this sound on whatever Radiohead album or whatever. Now maybe we know how to achieve that but like 10 years ago or like when we worked on the first two albums we wouldn’t know how to achieve that. Now with all the experience, in the studio, having got the experience we’ve got now we can actually like get to that, to those things much quicker.

Yeah.

Tord: Yeah I love ‘production-y’ things. I can sit here and geek like the whole day. Sometimes down rabbit holes but like a lot of times I’m learning something new you know? That’s an important thing with us. I think as band that we always think that our best work is ahead of us you know? And comes from a strive to be better or do something different or like try something new but within the sort of like recognisable elements that is The Wombats you know?

Absolutely, yeah.

Tord: It’s just the songs essentially I suppose, the song writing. Murph’s voice, yeah.

You already mentioned that you’re going out on tour in the UK again in a few weeks. Maybe apart from Liverpool, do you have a favourite city to play in in the UK?

Tord: I like playing in all cities for different reasons. Different people in different cities have different energies. In general the UK, it’s good fun, it’s such an energetic crowd. We get loads of singalongs, people crowd surf and mosh pits. It’s a pretty wild crowd compared to other parts of the world so its always exciting regardless of where we are you know?

Yeah.

Tord: I always like playing in the north. It’s something closer to our heart I guess cause the band’s from Liverpool and Murph and Dan are from Liverpool. I spent nearly 15 years of my life in Liverpool. I feel like we’ve got a strong connection to the north of the UK for sure. But then like, we love playing in London. We love playing down south as well. And the midlands of course! I think Birmingham is definitely one of my favourite places to play for sure. In terms of energy levels it’s definitely one of the cities that have most energy for sure.

I think Birmingham is definitely one of my favourite places to play for sure. In terms of energy levels it’s definitely one of the cities that have most energy for sure.

Is it, really?

Tord: Yeah. It’s always been one of the most out of control parts on the UK tours for sure. Maybe Glasgow is giving you a run for your money there but maybe that’s the only place!

Yeah. A lot of bands always seem to mention Glasgow as a great place to play.

Tord: Yeah.

One thing that’s often picked up on in The Wombats’ songs or a lot of them, and on ‘Is This What It Feels Like To Feel Like This?’, there’s often a bit of a contrast between the sort of up beat and usually very happy sound of the music but sometimes the lyrics can be deeper and more meaningful than maybe the music suggests…

Tord: And a bit dark.

Yeah, if that make sense. Is that something you’re conscious of doing, do you think maybe ‘Oh, this song’s sort of lyrically a bit darker so we’ll make the music sort of the opposite to create a contrast’, or is that just kind of the way your music sort of creates itself?

…I always feel like we find that intriguing. Making people dance to a really dark lyric, you know like ‘Everything I Love Is Going To Die’. It doesn’t get much darker than that.

Tord: I think that’s always something we found intriguing. And I find that intriguing in other bands and other music as well, if it’s contrasting you know? If you’ve got really moody lyrics and then you’ve got a really moody song then, you know people are gonna feel moody! If you have moody lyrics, maybe that’s how you feel or how you think. I always enjoy the moody lyrics or like quite dark lyrics or whatever. But if you set that up against like super happy music that people dance to, I think you’re touching upon the essence of The Wombats really. Like who we are.

I think ‘Let’s Dance To Joy Division’ is explaining that in the best possible way, you know in the lyrics there. And I think that’s always something that’s kind of stuck with us, whether we change the backdrop in terms of production and styles and whatever I always feel like we find that intriguing. Making people dance to a really dark lyric, you know like ‘Everything I Love Is Going To Die’. It doesn’t get much darker than that. It’s sort of uplifting you know?

Yeah definitely. I remember hearing that song for the first time and really picking up on that. I heard the title, wondered what it was gonna sound like and was surprised about sort of the way it is musically.

Tord: Yeah I think that’s one of the things that excites me with music, that it can do those kind of things.

Yeah that’s really interesting. If I’m correct it’s nearly 20 years since you formed the band. Is there something that stands out to you as something that you’ve done in that time, something maybe that you can pinpoint as sort of your favourite thing you’ve done or a great memory that you’ve had? Or an achievement that surpasses all the others?

Even on this album, this far into our career we’re still doing something for the first time…

Tord: It’s very difficult to pinpoint those things but we’ve spoke about a few things already, you know like whether it’s to headline the O2 for first time which we did on this album. Even on this album, this far into our career we’re still doing something for the first time you know? And that’s always the most exciting, when you do something for the first time it’s obviously more exciting than when you do it the second time or whatever, or the tenth time! So doing the O2, that was like of course a really massive milestone for the band, something that like we dreamt of doing you know and it felt like a really surreal moment.

We’ve been wanting to go to South America for a long time and we manged to do that on this run. You know we went to Chile, Argentina and Brazil. We get to headline the Sydney Opera House in November. There’s a lot of things that really like, I don’t know! I said it to you before like how through our work or whatever you always think that your best work is in front of you but also that counts for like just being a band. You know like I’m excited about like what’s to come maybe more so than what we already have done. You know, it doesn’t really help us right now like dwelling on the past and stuff, whether it’s good or bad. Of course a bit of nostalgia, kind of talking about like those early tours or whatever, all that’s fun but what is really exciting is to look into the future really of the band. What’s the next record gonna sound like, you know?

Of course a bit of nostalgia…all that’s fun but what is really exciting is to look into the future really of the band

Yeah. I suppose it’s so like fast-paced as well that like you don’t have to almost look back. Like you’re always thinking about the next thing and the next thing.

Tord: Yeah, you do that when you’re touring and when you finish touring that’s when you’re like ‘Crap! We did all this, this is ridiculous!’ you know like ‘What’s going on?’. It almost feels like unreal like a lot of that. Like did it actually happen, was it just a dream or something? Sometimes I’m left with that feeling when I come home. And I’ve got a very like normal life here you know? I’ve got a daughter who’s six years old now. Then day to day, okay I come to the studio to make music or whatever, but then cook dinner, you know like every day is very like ‘samey’ and I love that as well you know? The routine and stuff. But then, you know The Wombats’ world is so far removed from my day to day here now. It’s almost like a double life sometimes.

Yeah. I can understand that, yeah.

Tord: But it’s necessary. It’s a necessary double life I think. That we all appreciate you know?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Sort of related to that. Obviously during that period you’ve released a lot of music, you’ve released five albums. I imagine it’s hard and changes quite often, I mean it would change for me, but do you have maybe a particular favourite or maybe a few favourite Wombats songs that sort of stand out in your mind? Or maybe one that you love to play live?

Tord: Again, it’s hard to pick isn’t it?

Yeah.

I love playing ‘Method To The Madness’ cause it’s such a different energy to any other track…

Tord: I love playing ‘Method To The Madness’ cause it’s such a different energy to any other track and also because it’s kind of like split into two. It’s so chilled and you see them all in the crowd and they’re not sure if they haven’t heard it before and it’s like ‘Oh what is this? This doesn’t sound like The Wombats, what is this?’ and then the build up starts and people are like ‘Ooh yeah’ and getting in to it or whatever. Then they start forming mosh pits and like middle circles and then when it kicks in and everybody bashes into each other it’s like a release of energy. That gives me goosebumps just talking about it! That moment when it kicks in, cause it’s built up to that point, it’s that sense of anticipation, which I feel like we haven’t done before in any other tracks, no other tracks have that.

Yeah.

Tord: It’s that just ultimate, like absolutely total release of energy that happens in that track which excites me every night.

Yeah. You say about that song sort of being a completely different feel. That was the first single from the album wasn’t it?

Tord: Yeah.

Were you hesitant about that at all? With it being a bit different, maybe not what people would’ve thought, especially being the first one?

…it was exciting also because everyone got behind that and it was a kind of a ballsy move to go with something that different.

Tord: We weren’t but of course people in the system were, like whether it’s label, management! I mean it’s a ballsy move to kind of go with something that different as the first song back of course. But I think it was sort of like necessary to kind of like showcase something completely different cause if you go with something that’s like ‘Oh that sound like The Wombats’, people are gonna like brush it off their shoulders a bit. It’s a statement I think. It was exciting for us because it was something we were very proud of of course but it was exciting also because everyone got behind that and it was a kind of a ballsy move to go with something that different. Of course it wasn’t really a single, I guess it was like a ‘focus track’ or whatever. They don’t like to call it a single cause it was never gonna be played on radio cause of the swearing in the end. But you know, it was exciting to us anyway.

In the summer you played a lot of festivals in this country like Boardmasters and Victorious. How that does that compare to touring? I know they’re two different things but do you have a preference between normal shows and festivals, or are they not really comparable?

Tord: I like both but for different reasons. Festivals you get to play to a much bigger crowd which is amazing, that kind of sea of people. But it’s not your fans necessarily so you kind of have to work extra hard to convince people that it’s worth sticking around for. So you’ve got a big stage that you have to fill, you’ve got big crowds to please cause they’ve maybe only heard a few of your singles basically. But it’s amazing to play in front of that many people. When the crowd is good at a festival, it’s a crazy moment you know? Obviously when we play our shows, you know as well as the singles, they know the album…

They know all the songs, yeah.

Tord: And it feels like a safer sort of environment to be in! You know that even if it’s a weird b-side, there will be people who know that song. Not that we ever do play many b-sides! It’s our home isn’t it, like for one night when we do a headline show. And that’s maybe the nicest feeling really. This is our kind of like family. This is us and our like people who are for us you know?

It’s our home isn’t it…when we do a headline show. And that’s maybe the nicest feeling really. This is our kind of like family.

Yeah definitely.

Tord: It’s extra special with the headline shows I would say. But of course, festivals are loads of fun and put you in front of a lot of new people that haven’t seen you live maybe, maybe they just know a few songs. So then I like the challenge of that as well, that you can convince a few new people, you know to come to our next show!

Yeah. I nearly asked that actually. I was gonna say like ‘is that a fun challenge?’. I can understand that.

Tord: It is yeah.