Redbrick Sport editor Oscar Frost had the pleasure of interviewing Dudley ‘Tal’ Stokes about his life and career as part of the story of the hit film ‘Cool Runnings.’ According to the film, Tal (or Derice Bannock) was a Jamaican sprinter who lost out on a chance to represent his country at the Olympics. He then recruited his friends and former competitors on the track to create ‘Cool Runnings’, the first Jamaican bobsled team. This story is not entirely true. In this interview, Tal outlined his background in the military, partying with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and the story of how someone made it into the team wearing party clothes and alligator shoes – arguably even more exciting than the film itself.

With the Winter Olympics on right now, it was a great opportunity to get an insight into one of the most famous Winter Olympic stories of all time.

What did they capture the best in the film Cool Runnings about your journey to the Winter Olympics?

The best thing they captured was the overall spirit of what we were trying to achieve, even though they did take poetic licence with who said what and they had us carrying the sled at the end of the crash. While those things didn’t happen in that way, it was a dramatisation of a very real spirit of the effort that came across and still comes across today.

The scene that stuck with viewers the most was with Junior looking in the mirror and discovering his own confidence – is this really how it happened?

That was a dramatisation of a situation which pretty much everyone went through, and which I had to go through as well because of the additional responsibility of being the driver and the captain. There were moments like that with lots of self talk and self confidence building to go out and try, so they heard stories from different sources and brought them together in that scene. The film was restricted to 94 minutes, and they had to try and bring the story into that timeframe in an entertaining way, which also showed everyone’s emotions. Over time I have come to appreciate that and I give my hat to them for being able to do it.

It’s such an entertaining film, and I wanted to pick out about how little time you had to prepare for the Olympics, and whether that added pressure or took some away?

It piled the pressure on. We were in a completely new sport, and a very difficult one at that. We were on a very fine timeline and we didn’t know what we needed to do because nobody had tried to do it before. The International Federation at the time set out things we needed to do to qualify, and finally we went for break around Christmas. Over Christmas and over the new year we were waiting to see if we were going to be accepted or not. And then, on the 28th or 29th of December the word came through ‘right you’re in the games.’ That was at once a relief but we also knew we had to go and perform on this stage. 

We were in a completely new sport, and a very difficult one at that

That must have been a crazy moment! When did it change from being just a plan to actually thinking you could feasibly do it?

This was conceptualised by William Maloney and George Fitch who came up with the idea of Jamaican bobsled, got the American bobsled involved in preparing the team. By the time they came to prepare athletes and I became involved they had done a lot of the groundwork in getting that far. It was then a question of getting the people who could deliver on being able to get the sled from the top to the bottom in one piece. So a lot of that was given to us, but we still had a lot to figure out. You know, how to do this sport, how to manage the machinery, the cold, the weather and what a bobsled track is and what it looks like and how a bobsled works and the G forces.

The film does a great job to make it a big thing when you see your first bobsled, so when did you actually get in the bobsled for the first time as a team? Did you go down a hill on a wooden cart, or what was the real process of getting in a bobsled and trying it out?

We did build a bobsled on wheels in Jamaica, and we did push it, but we were sensible enough not to try to push it downhill! The big help was who went where on the start. That push bobsled that we built is alive today, and we have a push track now, so it’s still being used. Getting in a sled, obviously we had to travel, so the first time was in Calgary (the same place as the Olympics) back in October 1987, and bobsled starts slow and low. On any bobsled track there are various starts that go higher and higher, with the racing one being at the top. Obviously from there you will get the most momentum. For my first run from the top I did not see a thing! It never got as good as that again. 

On any bobsled track there are various starts that go higher and higher, with the racing one being at the top

With bobsled being so niche, and you having to travel all the way to Calgary to try it out, how would you recommend someone get into the sport?

In the UK they have a strong social media presence and website where you can make your interest known. Nowadays you can look at a YouTube video to see what you’re supposed to be doing, or you could be invited down to a training camp. Pretty much the same process goes with Jamaica, but we have people interested from all over the world, so the main priority is to be able to have a look at them physically. You want to start out on the sled not as a driver so you can learn slowly, gain experience, then eventually move up to the front

In Britain we had James Dasaolu make the transition from the Team GB track and field team to the bobsleigh team, and I was wondering what your thoughts were on that?

One of the creative ways they put the film together was in combining my brother and myself to make one character. My brother is actually the sprinter, and the two things I would say about that is that being a good athlete won’t hurt you in bobsleigh, but it is not enough. Herschel Walker was an extremely good athlete, playing professional football as a running back, and one season – during my career it was very popular for football players to come across and go to the Olympic Games in bobsleighs. Herschel Walker made the team for the 1992 games, and he came in with the American number 1 driver and they thought they would destroy other teams at the start, but they went there and they weren’t the best. They were pretty good, but they were fourth or fifth. The guys ahead of them didn’t have a big name or necessarily impressive statistics in other sports, but they did know how to push a bobsled. So, the start and the push is a discipline in itself that needs to be respected. It does not matter how good of an athlete you are because lesser athletes than yourself will beat you because they will have mastered the techniques. It is great to be a good athlete, but you have to put in the work, you have to put in the time and you have to master the technique. 

The start and the push is a discipline in itself that needs to be respected

You have the speed and adrenaline rush from bobsled, so I was wondering if there is anything you do now that emulates that to any extent?

I don’t bobsled now. In 2018 I did a little slide while I was really getting into my coaching career, and I was able to get a feel for the new style of mono bobsleigh – when I was competing they only had the two or four man sled, but they brought in a single bobsled for women. It is a great feeling, but it also takes a great toll on the body, so I wouldn’t say I necessarily miss going down a bobsled track regularly. 

What outside of Cool Runnings is the coolest thing you’ve done that could come close to the feeling of bobsledding?

I served 10 years in the Jamaican military in helicopters in operational situations, so I’ve been in plenty of situations where you had to control the adrenaline or make it run depending on what was going on. I was never really into extreme sports as life was enough of a rush for me coming into bobsledding. I joined the military straight out of school in 1986 and I trained at the royal military academy in sandhurst as an officer and then I went to a Canadian flight training school. I became a pilot from ‘83 to 1990 and I was basically a serving officer in the Jamaican defence force.

Did you feel like you were living a bit of a double life in a way with a bobsled life and a military life, or did they complement each other?

They did complement each other, which is part of the reason why George Fitch and William Malone were thinking about the bobsled team and had gone to the military in the first place. In Britain, bobsled is a very military sport, with all the arms having different teams and use it as a training tool, so coming out of that there were quite a few service members in the national programme. The guys went in and they saw the head of sports in the Jamaican military who was called Ken Barnes, whose son John you probably know. Ken said yes this is our military sport so we’ll do it! They needed an athlete with hand-eye coordination, and Ken knew me from the army football team, so he said I have the man for you. He sent a message down and that’s how I got involved. In the military there is a tradition that you go off and do other things like parachuting, hiking, shooting for the national team and things like that. Bobsled has always been a natural ally of the military bringing in certain people to compete. 

They needed an athlete with hand-eye coordination, and Ken knew me from the army football team, so he said I have the man for you

Did the military way of life help your bobsled career?

It did a lot, and this is one of the things that people looking at us have the impression that we were from a beach and were dropped on an ice track. It didn’t quite work like that because I was quite accustomed to being outdoors in all sorts of extreme environments. Remember that three of the four athletes on the 1988 team were serving members of the military at the time. One the discipline, two the exposure and three the structure means we didn’t go there completely starting from scratch and unaware of how things happened in the organisation. Jamaican bobsled would not have been possible had we not had that profile. 

Did you know each other before you were in the bobsled team, or was it that you all met through the sport?

We certainly didn’t know each other as well as we came to, but we were aware of each other. All of us were involved in sport, so we would have come across each other in competition or something, but didn’t really know each other.

And how was that team picked? Were there trials?

Americans came down from the American bobsled programme, including athletes who had participated in various American teams, and they designed a tryout with seven events with climbing, jumping, running and such. So, they designed it and ran it over the course of the day, and at the end of the day they had a ranking and picked the team from that. To tell you that one of the accurate parts of the movie was when the selection scene in the movie when they came in and the room was darkened and a series of bobsled crashes were projected and the light came back on and the room was empty: that pretty much happened. The only people left in the room were the soldiers who were ordered to be there and one or two mad civilians. The majority of the people had left in the dark.

Of all the scenes in the film, that would not be at the top for believing it was real! How did you find out about the selection process?

There were advertisements in the press which I never saw, and I was actually on leave from the army and my phone at home rang and it was my CO who said I needed to do this thing. He actually just gave me the date for the selections at the national stadium and I then had to find out what bobsled was and what they were testing for and so on. The ads weren’t getting the response that George and William wanted, so they decided that they had to go to the army and get some people who were told to come to these tryouts. 

Who was the person who wasn’t in the army who got into the team? 

Freddy Powell, who unfortunately died a few years back, was from rural Jamaica in an area called St Elizabeth, a very very good farming area. Freddie read about it and jumped on his motorcycle, which was a Suzuki S90 – a very popular motorcycle in Jamaica and was like a beat-up scooter. He rode it 60 miles and missed the film and the talk and the crashes. When we got down to the track Freddy came screaming down the tunnel on his S90, screeched to a halt and asked where the bobsled trials were, and said he was ready to go. So everyone got changed into their track kit but Freddie only had his party shoes, alligator skin long shoes, and he did the trials like that. I don’t know what his score was but I can imagine it was very good because he was selected and did travel in ‘88.

Freddie only had his party shoes, alligator skin long shoes, and he did the trials like that

Were there any other stories from around that time that are as interesting as that that didn’t get included in the film?

After they selected four of us, one civilian and three soldiers, we then had a special trip in September before the track was open because Howard wanted us to meet and talk. We had a barbecue and we spoke, and he did take us to the ice track and we went up there with our bobsled and slid around, but fortunately there was no ice hockey practice going on. We had that, and travelled in the company of a former Miss Jamaica, who ensured that we had publicity wherever we went. From the start, it was a bit of a show.

How was it portrayed in the media at the time: were you a household name in Jamaica or was it more unknown?

We were known in Jamaica. Obviously the guys did a good job promoting it overseas because the first interview that we did with a major publication was when Caitlyn Jenner visited Jamaica and she was a correspondent for People Magazine at the time. She came to watch us train and spoke and so we had a piece in People.

Has there been anyone else you’ve met that’s blown you away? 

After the ‘88 games we went to L.A. And we stayed for two weeks doing all sorts of things. I remember I was in a random radioshack in L.A. on a hill; I walked in, and in behind me came Rutger Hauer. One of my favourite films at the time was Blade Runner, and I just looked up and he was standing there looking at stuff in the store, and at that time I was speechless. On this trip we went to the L.A. Clippers playing the L.A. Lakers, and I went to the changing rooms in the days of Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. We were in the locker room with them and they were talking to us with a very good vibe. When we left, we went through the back door and there’s a limo waiting. We were heading down the steps and there’s this huge figure on the steps, and we walked by him. I didn’t look at him but P.C. Harris, who was one of the people who was involved in organising the team, turned back and said ‘Champ!’ So we all looked back at who it was and it was Mike Tyson. We said Hi Mike, good to meet you’ and sat down with him. So, we told him who we were and he had a very colourful response to that and so we’re just talking and Louis Gossett Jr. comes up the steps and shakes Mike Tyson’s hand. That stuff happens to you in L.A.! 

And did they know who you were?

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had a Jamaica bobsled t-shirt way before I was wearing one around. Mike knew who we were – everybody knew! Everybody was just enjoying the moment and what was going on.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had a Jamaica bobsled t-shirt way before I was wearing one around

Did you get any negativity to go alongside these awesome experiences?

Not in the games. Whatever negative feelings there were when we started out had been at the level of the administrators and so on. They saw the value of the publicity that it might bring and they eventually came around to appreciate it. By the time it came to the Olympics we had been in Times magazine and Life, so we were celebrities. The rest of the athletes’ families were pressuring them to get autographs and pictures, so the negative vibes that they may have been feeling were now quashed for the time being. We never really faced much resistance from athletes or people in the programme, even if we crashed and did influence the outcome of a race. We did go onto three Olympic Games and improved our performances significantly and then once we became competitive a lot of folks became a lot less friendly than they were when we were just celebrities. 

What was it like going back to the second Olympic Games with everyone knowing who you were?

They knew who we were from the story, so the ‘92 games were in Albertville and Cool Runnings had not been released, so everything was what people could remember from the ‘88 games. By that time I was substantially better at the sport of bobsled as I spent a lot of time taking busses and trains around Europe getting to bobsled tracks, carrying my own runners, renting my own sleds, entering races. I spent four years doing that, and when I got to Albertville I was a much better driver and better athlete. Then we went to the games and finished 30th and 24th in the four man, which was respectable, so we were looking professional. It didn’t even get reported – everyone lost interest! As a Jamaican bobsled team, we had to crash or win for anyone to notice. Middle of the pack was not going to cut it. But then, come October ‘93, Cool Runnings gets released. I had been working with two athletes, really world class athletes, to go along with my brother. So, we went from ordinary to world class. But, we didn’t have any money, so we didn’t have any notoriety. I had made a deal with the best sled manufacturer in the world – they were an East German company and they were struggling after the fall of the Berlin Wall. I said I didn’t have any money for sleds, but if they gave me a sled I would make it the most famous sled ever made and you will sell more than you can make. So, they gave us three sets of four man sleds and two two man sleds, so we had equipment and athletes. Then Cool Runnings came out, and it was a smash hit from day one. All the corporations were descending to become partners with us. With that money we went to the Lillehammer games in ‘94. The summer and Winter Olympics were moved apart, meaning there was only a two year gap after the ‘92 games. So we went to Lillehammer and picked up a really unorthodox coach. We had the equipment and finished fourteenth overall of the four heats – we were tenth in two of them. We didn’t have the luxury of choosing our equipment based on what the weather was going to be, but we just had one of everything. We were ahead of all the American teams; they had a six million dollar budget for sleds alone, but we had 60 thousand for the whole programme. It remains the high point of Jamaican bobsled – it is the high point of having a black male driver in the Olympic Games. It was kind of magical, and if it was not off the back of Cool Runnings being released, I don’t think we would have been able to afford to go, and certainly not with such good preparation, and experience on the Olympic track. I don’t think that would have happened. 

It was an absolute pleasure to speak with Tal and have the chance to dive deeper into such a cult classic that is ‘Cool Runnings.’ Tal will be back at the Winter Olympics in a few weeks time as the coach and mentor of Benjamin Alexander, Jamaica’s first ever Olympic alpine skier.

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